Should I add a TURBO or SUPERCHARGER

[OC Cruzer]

I have a manual boost controller mounted under the hood.
All it is, is a needle valve and check valve thingee that attaches to a vacuum line from the turbo.
Cost about $80.00
If I'm running say 8psi and want to increase the boost, I just turn the valve in.
Every 1/8 turn either increases or decreases the boost about a pd. depending on which way you turn the knob.
Takes maybe 1 minute to adjust the boost level.
There are better ways of doing it then a manual controller, but this is ok for the moment.

One more neat thing----- I put a Probe intercooler on my car that I got from a junk yard for $100.00.
This was before Hahn came out with their kit.
At the time, I was running 6psi boost, when I put the intercooler on, there was a very noticeable increase in power.
The boost level actually fell off about a pd. or so, but just cooling the intake air made a big difference.


Maybe it hasn't been mentioned yet, but there is one Big problem with the turbo.
The first time you step on it, your face might break from the big grin.

[LandHO]

Does anyone know of a supercharger installer in the Detroit area?

[GOLDMEMBER]

Hahn Looks like it turns out good numbers.

Gary from Race and Street is the Whipple Wizard.


Not sure which way I will go or just do an engine swap from a GT

[phatdad]

Engine swap would be a bit#$. Would conist of engine ,tranny all wiring harness and computers and fuel system upgrade and the biggest bottle of asprin u could find

[Ali N I]

Okay so the concensus is no more then 8 PSI unless you so bottom end. Im curious what it would cost to do the bottom end mods.
I might finally be ready to do this mod around the first of the year rather then buy the 04. With the trade in loss, I would lose as much as the turbo kit.
Do I need to replace my lower fascia to accomodate a intercooler though? I would want to run one right away to decrease the chance of detonation.

[Air Ride PT]

Originally posted by Ali N I
Okay so the concensus is no more then 8 PSI unless you so bottom end. Im curious what it would cost to do the bottom end mods.
I might finally be ready to do this mod around the first of the year rather then buy the 04. With the trade in loss, I would lose as much as the turbo kit.
Do I need to replace my lower fascia to accomodate a intercooler though? I would want to run one right away to decrease the chance of detonation.

If you are thinking about rebuilding your bottom end, contact Bob Stockum. He sells a rod and piston kit for $750 or so. It includes rods, pistons, rings, and bearings (i believe). I'm expecting my kit to arrive sometime next week . And he's a nice guy, so I'd give him the repeat business anyday.

[bstockum]

Quote from JOEM;
"Just for clairification, then, your answer to the question of whether the safe zone for the factory Cruiser engine (no heavy duty pieces added) is no more than 6 psi (around 30 HP added) with an aftermarket turbo is...yes. Thanks." /End quote

... I don't think I ever put a HP number on the 6 PSI boost limit I have been talking about, with stock internals! .

... The HP you get with 6 PSI boost will depend on a lot of factors. With a good exhaust system, #10 or 14 cams, bored TB, cool air intake, bigger injectors, head/port work, over-sized valves, Crane boost retard ignition, Intercooler, water-cooling the turbo, cooler air intake, better filter system, GT intake upgrade, ..... may some others too! (most of these would not be considered major engine mods. They are add-ons, that really make a difference to the turbo's / engine's performance.

... In My Opinion, a properly tuned turbo at 6 Psi boost will make more power than a SC at the same boost, .... especially once you get rolling! The small difference in lag, (between the SC and turbo engine), is almost completly taken away, by the way the driver handles his car. If you are in a race mode and treat the turbo right, (how you use the gas and brake), ... you can leave the line with both tires smoking ! ! ! ! ... so where is the big benefite of the SC. .... (YES, .. if you are both lugging around at 15 MPH and both hit the gas at the same time, ... the SC will take off first. .. But once you get rolling, ... the turbo will roll right on by, .. if everything else is equal. ... IMO

I think that FLASHY and PHATDAD, who have both tweaked their cars to around 14 PSI steady, have found that their cars are pretty equal in performance. (FLASHBACK's is a GT / 5 speed and PHATDAD's is a Hahn turbo / automatic.
There are certian speeds where FLASY has an advantage if he down shifts and can "catch the automatic", in a higher gear and he can pull on the automatic some. This would be expected.

I was quite pleased to see an automatic Hahn car, run right with a GT with, the boost held at 13-14 psi. You would normally expect the 5 speed car to "run away from" the automatic car!!
(I think the Super 16g turbo from Hahn is a more efficient unit and is why the Hahn automatic is making more power than the GT at the same boost level. Phatdad's ex system is OK, .... but there is probably still more to be had there along with some larger injectors.

We have been VERY successful, .. turning up the boost / performance on the turbo systems. I am not so sure that many people have been able to do the same, ... with the SC cars.

Back to the orig. topic of this thread, .... I don't think I can "attach" a HP figure to the 6 PSI boost level, ... for the reasons mentioned above, ... unless you are speaking about a totally stock engine, with the turbo added. ... thren your figure is about right. (stock ex system KILLS the add-on turbo), ... it really needs to be upgraded at the same time!!

Still, ... we are learning almost daily that larger injectors and open exhaust/ CAT wake the system up quite a bit in both responce and overall power. ... We have not dyno'd every possible configuration, .... it just gets too expensive to do that!!

Bob

[GOLDMEMBER]

Originally posted by bstockum
If you can leave the boost alone at 4-6 psi, ... you will be as close to plug and play as possible. If you have already added a freer exhaust, .... all the better. The Hahn kit will be a MARKED-improvement, .... just as it comes! It can also be upgraded very easily later, without throwing the existing stuff away. You simply add the intercooler, a larger set of injectors and the Crane boost retard ignition at that time, up the boost to 8 psi. Those 4 things will add about 60 horse power!! (IC, injectors, Crane Ignition and 8 psi boost). ... an insxpensive BOV is a good idea too!
BUT BE WARNED !! go *** "NO" *** further until you do the bottom end!! .... if you have detonation and keep your foot in it, .... it could get UGLY, .... even at 8 psi boost. So the ability to tune your turbo system is very important!

I will be glad to assist you in the install and tuning of your system. I can even save you some bucks on the kit and upgrades when you are ready for them.



Bob

Thanks for the info Bob I was also wondering which way to go too

[GOLDMEMBER]

Originally posted by LandHO
Does anyone know of a supercharger installer in the Detroit area?

Race and Street in Clairon PA.
Not sure of any in Detroit but I would get installed by someone that has done them in the past.

[JOEM]

Originally posted by bstockum
Quote from JOEM;
"Just for clairification, then, your answer to the question of whether the safe zone for the factory Cruiser engine (no heavy duty pieces added) is no more than 6 psi (around 30 HP added) with an aftermarket turbo is...yes. Thanks." /End quote

... I don't think I ever put a HP number on the 6 PSI boost limit I have been talking about, with stock internals! .


Back to the orig. topic of this thread, .... I don't think I can "attach" a HP figure to the 6 PSI boost level, ... for the reasons mentioned above, ... unless you are speaking about a totally stock engine, with the turbo added. ... thren your figure is about right. (stock ex system KILLS the add-on turbo), ... it really needs to be upgraded at the same time!!

Bob

I think the main question is if one wants to put a Hahn turbo on a stock engine without adding heavy duty engine pieces, what was the safe amount of boost and what HP does that correspond to? I gather from your comments that it is, indeed, 6 psi, which would yield around 30 HP on a totally stock system. A non-stock freer flowing exhaust system, cold air intake, and other non-HD mods would likely boost that HP figure, which is a plus.

I think some folks want to put on a turbo but not go with the rebuild of the bottom end, etc., and want to have an idea how much boost and HP they can safely gain thereby. Thanks.