Reality Bites!!

[Mark1]

For a long time i have been the go to guy for mini truckers and more reciently the import crowd. At first it was helping to plan out the build of a truck to show quality. As performance took over I was all over it.

Most people who are looking to upgrade the motor asume the higher hp number is the one that they will get on thier car, if for example the intake says "10-20 HP increase". Most of the time it is asumed they will be the one that will get the 20 HP. Most do not realize that the advertised hp results are on test engines not in a car.

A lot of the guys i help are hoping for the big numbers but after explaining that it alll workes togather and there are no magic parts they have a better idea what they need to do to get thier goal.

Some are not so fortunite. Most that dont beleave,and then find out the truth after a $200 street race the try to keep off the subject. Yesterday I had a rare thing hapen. Sam has a civic that he wants to build into a torq monster for light to light style racing and auto cross. He came with this list of parts he wanted and gives the "it will have 345 ftlbs of torq!!!" after my lecture he did not want to beleave. I was not able to convinced him to make a better plan. So i sent him awayas i did not want him to spend that kind of money on the project. He went to another shop and spend $2000 on the parts and had them installed. after break in lost every race he was in that week. I ran in to him by chance at Bust Buy. He relayed the storie as i smiled. I did not give him the I told you so. But I could see i did not need to. I told him again that half of the stuff he bought does not really add hp it only frees some up from one task and lets it go to the wheels.

Now the fun part. He was on the way to a dyno to tune it as it should have been. He called me and told me i was within 50 ft pounds of my guess. and had only 2/3 of his math.

I am no genius in tuning a car. but i have done enuff to know to ignore the propaganda on the lables. And tried many parts to know what works, and in what combination to get a desired result.


The hardest part for them to wrap thier heads arround is the fact that nothing adds HP!!! parts only release the potential power of the motor. Short of adding more fuel and air, like forced induction and NOS. Example: a free flowing intake does not add hp tp the motor. It allowes the motor to work easier. It does not have to suck the air so hard to get it in the cylender. if it does not have to suck so hard it spins a bit more free allowing the HP to go to the wheels not to sucking air.

[ilmpts]

Originally posted by Mark1
For a long time i have been the go to guy for mini truckers and more reciently the import crowd. At first it was helping to plan out the build of a truck to show quality. As performance took over I was all over it.

Most people who are looking to upgrade the motor asume the higher hp number is the one that they will get on thier car, if for example the intake says "10-20 HP increase". Most of the time it is asumed they will be the one that will get the 20 HP. Most do not realize that the advertised hp results are on test engines not in a car.

A lot of the guys i help are hoping for the big numbers but after explaining that it alll workes togather and there are no magic parts they have a better idea what they need to do to get thier goal.

Some are not so fortunite. Most that dont beleave,and then find out the truth after a $200 street race the try to keep off the subject. Yesterday I had a rare thing hapen. Sam has a civic that he wants to build into a torq monster for light to light style racing and auto cross. He came with this list of parts he wanted and gives the "it will have 345 ftlbs of torq!!!" after my lecture he did not want to beleave. I was not able to convinced him to make a better plan. So i sent him awayas i did not want him to spend that kind of money on the project. He went to another shop and spend $2000 on the parts and had them installed. after break in lost every race he was in that week. I ran in to him by chance at Bust Buy. He relayed the storie as i smiled. I did not give him the I told you so. But I could see i did not need to. I told him again that half of the stuff he bought does not really add hp it only frees some up from one task and lets it go to the wheels.

Now the fun part. He was on the way to a dyno to tune it as it should have been. He called me and told me i was within 50 ft pounds of my guess. and had only 2/3 of his math.

I am no genius in tuning a car. but i have done enuff to know to ignore the propaganda on the lables. And tried many parts to know what works, and in what combination to get a desired result.


The hardest part for them to wrap thier heads arround is the fact that nothing adds HP!!! parts only release the potential power of the motor. Short of adding more fuel and air, like forced induction and NOS. Example: a free flowing intake does not add hp tp the motor. It allowes the motor to work easier. It does not have to suck the air so hard to get it in the cylender. if it does not have to suck so hard it spins a bit more free allowing the HP to go to the wheels not to sucking air.

Well said Mark
If 1% gets the message then you have done a great job!
But some people won`t get it!

[MiniHemi]

I understand what you are saying and I se it all the time. My advice to most of my friends is useally take the low number and run with that. If the intake like you says promises 10-20hp increase then take the 10hp increase and run with that. Then after puting the parts in take it to get dyno tuned and see where you stand its better to be guessing low then to be guessing real high IMO you dont look as much of an idiot this way. Also I tell them the hp numbers that are promised are promised to the wheels so 10hp could be any where 5-8hp to the wheels. However like what happend to you my friends get lost in the idea their part just added a lot of power when i added a small amount (which added with more is great). Maybe I see it a lot because im young and most of my friends werent as lucky as me growing up in a faimly who races. But I do understand what your saying and your right it happens a lot.

-Cory

[PT-Turbo]

Mark is so right,
ever look in the mini trucking magizine
or the trucking magizine,
you can find many adds that say, stage 1-5,
and give you a power level increase, LOL
like # 5 is 85 hp, and its a k&N fliter ,cat backexhaust, a tornadeo air mixer, pulleys,, and some kind of chip,,
, i wish you could bolt on 85 hp, that easily,
of course theres no dyno charts to back up any claimes,
and a dyno is only a small representaion, fo real world driving,,
so even that has to be witha grain of salt,
,

a funny story was a younger kid i know, who,
strongly belives all the written words on power hp each product adds,
his list of stuff, makes me smile so much,
, right from his site,

1. With all these lubricants alone (z-max, knockout, stp & duralube), I've boosted the horsepower close to an extra 5+ HP.
2. When I add in the tornado it'll boost the Hp to about another 10-20 depending on how clean the engine runs and the size of the motor (v6 in my case) So I'm guessing about 15HP Boost.
3. When I add the K&N air filter, its obv gonna be running betta than the one in there right now & It'll give it about another 4.3-8.6HP Boost 2-4%(215HP X 0.02 = 4.3HP+/ 215HP X 0.04 = 8.6HP+)
4. So what have we Learned? I've increased the HP up to 25+ without adding any performance parts such as cold air intake, exhuast or even a supercharger. Imagine what u already upgraded/supped up rydes can still add to ur rydes.


that made me so smile,
i wish engine preformance was this easy,


joe,
ps,
i think zmax is being sued by tons of people,
isnt it just mineral oil? olololol

[MX-5]

Originally posted by MiniHemi
after puting the parts in take it to get dyno tuned and see where you stand

That's why I'm offering the dyno day on June 14th.

I have quite a crowd already signed up, but there are 10 times as many who aren't willing to let go of their egos and get some real numbers.

They claim to have a 500hp 1.8L motor, but it runs 16's at the track. Hmmmm.... "let's get it dyno tested so you will have an accurate hp & torque chart".
"Uh.. um... dude, my motor has sooo much power, the dyno won't be able to read it all".
( true, the dyno can't read all the hp gained by a wing and stickers/decals )


And I say..." the dyno can read up to 1200hp, and it's still accurate at only 150hp. You need to wipe up all the BS coming out of your mouth and put up or shut up!"

[at58]

Originally posted by MX-5



That's why I'm offering the dyno day on June 14th.

I have quite a crowd already signed up, but there are 10 times as many who aren't willing to let go of their egos and get some real numbers.

They claim to have a 500hp 1.8L motor, but it runs 16's at the track. Hmmmm.... "let's get it dyno tested so you will have an accurate hp & torque chart".
"Uh.. um... dude, my motor has sooo much power, the dyno won't be able to read it all".
( true, the dyno can't read all the hp gained by a wing and stickers/decals )


And I say..." the dyno can read up to 1200hp, and it's still accurate at only 150hp. You need to wipe up all the BS coming out of your mouth and put up or shut up!"

Amen MX, Very well said. Talk is cheap, Action is where it's at...

[JOEM]

Originally posted by ilmpts


Well said Mark
If 1% gets the message then you have done a great job!
But some people won`t get it!

Yes, indeed, well said, Mark. This should be a "sticky" on this Performance Forum.

The key to performance is to first get as much out of your current engine setup as you can, to get more of the engines's existing HP driving those wheels. Then if you're still not satisfied, it's time for cams, pistons, turbos, sc's, nitrous, etc.

[image guy]

Originally posted by at58


Amen MX, Very well said. Talk is cheap, Action is where it's at...

I agree 100%. You can take it a step further and say you don't know what you have until you get that little slip of paper at the return road of the track. You have to get the power to the ground and uderstand how to drive some as well.

[renichms]

Originally posted by MX-5



That's why I'm offering the dyno day on June 14th.

I have quite a crowd already signed up, but there are 10 times as many who aren't willing to let go of their egos and get some real numbers.

They claim to have a 500hp 1.8L motor, but it runs 16's at the track. Hmmmm.... "let's get it dyno tested so you will have an accurate hp & torque chart".
"Uh.. um... dude, my motor has sooo much power, the dyno won't be able to read it all".
( true, the dyno can't read all the hp gained by a wing and stickers/decals )


And I say..." the dyno can read up to 1200hp, and it's still accurate at only 150hp. You need to wipe up all the BS coming out of your mouth and put up or shut up!"

Without a MASSIVE turbo and heavy duty work, how do they expect to get 500 hp from a 1.8L motor? ...especially if running 16 second 1/4 miles...

RN

[MX-5]

Originally posted by renichms
Without a MASSIVE turbo and heavy duty work, how do they expect to get 500 hp from a 1.8L motor? ...especially if running 16 second 1/4 miles.

Well.....

The kiddies around here seem to believe that the widget says "gain up to 20hp", they simply get 20hp.
What the manufacturer means is "you may get zero to 20hp". The answer is closer to zero.

Then they add all the "up to xxx hp" together.
Then they add more hp for the Japanese decals and stickers!
Then they add some hp for a huge, heavy, wing.
Then they add some more hp for lowering springs and expensive wheels.

Then they drive to the IHRA track and PARK.
They don't even run it!

Then they open their mouth and all the BS starts flowing.
Test & tune is $5 to watch or $15 to run, so I don't think it's because they can't afford to race.