Oh boy, bush is just wonderful!

[InfernoRed]

Lisa..I just don't get you.I NEVER said once that I was BETTER than any other American because I served.Did ANYONE else see that written in my last post in this thread??????I doubt it....Hell,some Americans don't want to serve(that's thier right).....Some Americans WANT to serve but because of some condition or another,can't......What I did say, concerning the oath for those going into ANY military branch is the SAME.....Active Duty,Reserves and the National Gaurds......I know this because I experienced it first hand.There were National Gaurd personelle at MEPS(Where one is given the physical for military entrance as well as last minute paper work is completed ad drug tests before one is shipped to his or her respective Military Basic Training facility......depending on branch)who stood side by side as we took that oath.We were a combonation of all branches in that induction room.The Army and National Gaurd go to the same Basic Training Facilities as well.

There were NO and I repeat NO U.S. Postal Service members there.Postal Service personelle DO perform an important job for this nation...but they do not partake of the same risks.They don't jump out of C-17s in the middle of the night........experience 6 Gs worth of launch thrust from the rolling deck of a super carrier........drive an M1-Abrams through combat fire...simply turn wrenches so that the men and women using combat equipment(such as jets,tanks and helicopters)can be assured that what they have should work......or simply provide a hot meal to all the other troops under combat conditions.You as a Postal Worker may indeed have taken an oath,but you aren't gonna be delivering mail to downtown Baghdad anytime.Postal Service members also are not subject to UCMJ........

Stop putting words in my mouth.....I'm no damn better than anyone else.I served(like MMMAAANNNNYYY)....and I simply put things in perspective based from direct experience.

InfernoRed

[beaconblackleg]

lol, don't sweat it InfernoRed. These last 9-10 pages pretty much show you're yelling into a void. No rational thought can penetrate or, it would seem, escape it.

[lisa]

Originally Posted by InfernoRed

Lisa..I just don't get you.I NEVER said once that I was BETTER than any other American because I served.Did ANYONE else see that written in my last post in this thread??????I doubt it....Hell,some Americans don't want to serve(that's thier right).....Some Americans WANT to serve but because of some condition or another,can't......What I did say, concerning the oath for those going into ANY military branch is the SAME.....Active Duty,Reserves and the National Gaurds......I know this because I experienced it first hand.There were National Gaurd personelle at MEPS(Where one is given the physical for military entrance as well as last minute paper work is completed ad drug tests before one is shipped to his or her respective Military Basic Training facility......depending on branch)who stood side by side as we took that oath.We were a combonation of all branches in that induction room.The Army and National Gaurd go to the same Basic Training Facilities as well.

There were NO and I repeat NO U.S. Postal Service members there.Postal Service personelle DO perform an important job for this nation...but they do not partake of the same risks.They don't jump out of C-17s in the middle of the night........experience 6 Gs worth of launch thrust from the rolling deck of a super carrier........drive an M1-Abrams through combat fire...simply turn wrenches so that the men and women using combat equipment(such as jets,tanks and helicopters)can be assured that what they have should work......or simply provide a hot meal to all the other troops under combat conditions.You as a Postal Worker may indeed have taken an oath,but you aren't gonna be delivering mail to downtown Baghdad anytime.Postal Service members also are not subject to UCMJ........

Stop putting words in my mouth.....I'm no damn better than anyone else.I served(like MMMAAANNNNYYY)....and I simply put things in perspective based from direct experience.

InfernoRed

I believe you DID say that all of us who have never served don't realize about the national guard-excuse me, but are you not saying you know and the rest of us don't??? Were you in the guard?? But since you were in the military, you know all about the guard whereas the rest of us are in the dark???

Well, if you didn't directly say it, a definite snobbish tone inferred it. Sorry if I did not read what you wrote like you intended me to. That would be a "tone of voice on the net" error.

And my80volare-that is the exact oath except part of the last line. Amazing that I can find no military person that can say that the two oaths vary, but maybe they have changed it since the people I know took it.

[JOEM]

Originally Posted by lisa

that is the exact oath except part of the last line. Amazing that I can find no military person that can say that the two oaths vary, but maybe they have changed it since the people I know took it.

Lisa, the difference makes all the difference--viz., "the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice." It officially puts military people in harm's way when necessary. It is, thus, not the same as the one the postal workers take. That oath has not changed for decades. Thanks, my80volare.

By the way, I ran postal logistics in Europe for a time and nearly all the "postal workers"--and all those who deployed--were in uniform.

[lisa]

Originally Posted by JOEM

Lisa, the difference makes all the difference--viz., "the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice." It officially puts military people in harm's way when necessary. It is, thus, not the same as the one the postal workers take. That oath has not changed for decades. Thanks, my80volare.

By the way, I ran postal logistics in Europe for a time and nearly all the "postal workers"--and all those who deployed--were in uniform.

I am not arguing-I don't want to be right, I want to be clear. If that is what the oath says (maybe everyone I know in the military has brain damage or doesn't remember it correctly-even those at the post office) then I believe you. I didn't think it could be the same-it was the guys that took the oath with me at the USPS that were vets that said they had taken the same oath before when they went in the service and my dad had said the same thing when I mentioned it to him. He was a bush type of guy-went into the guard during the Korean Conflict so he wouldn't be drafted into the service.

[PTRobert]

Originally Posted by my80volare

Desert Shield/Storm is a perfect example of the ineptitude of the UN. We should have been allowed to finish the job. Everyone I worked with over there (Saudi) felt the same way, because we knew that by leaving Hussien in place only meant another trip back there at a later date. I would "guess" that that was a common feeling with pretty much everyone that was there.

Finally a voice of reason.

WTF?! Are people blaming GW for the suicides committed by guys overseas? WTF were the guys overseas thinking when they signed up for the military? Don't tell me -- they were looking for a cush position pretending to be soldiers, hoping their uniforms will help them pick up women.

IMHO there needs to be some psychological testing of recruits, to be sure they are capable of executing the duties and carrying the responsibilities they've requested. People that join the military in times of peace hoping they will never see any "action" and simply learn a trade, see the world for "free" or get their college tuition covered really need to be vetted during the early stages of enlistment.

Before all the GW-haters flame me, my father was drafted for Viet Nam. He didn't want to go, but was willing to serve in any capacity required. My father-in-law signed up with the Marines voluntarily, and although he doesn't speak about his experiences publicly, kicked some VC-a$$.

Comparing this war to Viet Nam is moot - they are completely different because nobody was drafted for this campaign. If kids are offing themselves overseas - that is tragic. But one has to wonder, would they have still committed suicide had they never enlisted? A lot of people in the world (non-military) have witnessed horrible events and didn't kill themselves.

[InfernoRed]

Lisa.......once again missing the point.........

WHAT I SAID WAS..........I know from experience that the National Guard takes the SAME oath that the Army,Navy,Air Force and Marines as well as Reserves take.On Oct 3rd,1989...I took that oath right along young men and women going into all those branches INCLUDING National Guardsmen.They were going to basic with the newly inducted Army folks........They had the same potential to be deployed to combat theaters world wide.

Case in point...Desert Shield/Storm.....roughly 1/4 of the deployed U.S. troops were Reserves and National Guard.

Case in point...Operation Iraqi Freedom.....not quite half of those that have or are participating in it have been Reserves and National Guard.

Case in point...The 209th Quarter Master Unit(as I stated earlier)is a National Guard unit...from my home county of Tippicanoe County,Indiana.They are currently staging for return to the States in Kuwait after having spent a year in Iraq.If you don't think they put thier lives on the line just because they are a Gaurd Unit...ask Spc. Luke Frist about it...actually,you better ask Patti Frist...his mother.Luke is no longer with us.....he put his life as a Guard member on that line and lost.


But go ahead and keep putting words in my mouth....it really can be amusing.

BeaconBlackLeg....thanks for the advice ...I just love a good debate though.

InfernoRed

[JOEM]

Originally Posted by PTRobert

IMHO there needs to be some psychological testing of recruits, to be sure they are capable of executing the duties and carrying the responsibilities they've requested. People that join the military in times of peace hoping they will never see any "action" and simply learn a trade, see the world for "free" or get their college tuition covered really need to be vetted during the early stages of enlistment.

The fact is, no one knows for sure what they will do when they are "in harm's way." Most folks are scared when it happens, but do their duty. A few don't. Most folks have some sort of trauma from such an experience and a few have drastic trauma and suicide is one of the results.

I "vetted" a good number of Air Force recruits when I was a commander, recruits who came to us from basic military training and proved not to be acceptable as Air Force members. It's done all the time and psychological testing wouldn't be very helpful. It's actions that count most. A good First Sergeant can pick out the slackers and compel them to either put up or get a ticket back home. But a few folks who really aren't cut out for military service do slip through...it's inevitable.

[lisa]

Originally Posted by InfernoRed

The National Gaurd NOT TRUE military...hahahahahah....HELLO.You people who have NEVER served obviously don't realize InfernoRed :

Frmr. SRA William Hatfield
388th Fighter Wing/4th Combat AGE Team
"Fightin' Fujins"
Hill A.F.B. Ut. deployed to Al Minhad A.B.
United Arab Emerites,1990-1991

What you said is people who never served don't realize-definitely saying you know more than anyone who has never served. My father never served (his own words) but WAS in the guard. Are you sure ALL of the people in the guard look at it the same as you? Just asking. OK, but you know better because the rest of us just don't realize........

[InfernoRed]

Lisa,what does your father mean(and I am not being a wise A$$ her either)that he never served but yet was a Guardsman?Did he perform the requirements as asked...such as the once a month training and 2 weeks a year as a unit????Go to his physicals?And such....Because if he did..then he did perform his voluntary service to his country.

He may not have deployed but he did serve.......unless he simply sees only those who have actually been under fire as serving....but that sure seems as if he is selling himself(and others too)short.

And yes...technically,a person who has served(performed his/her duty)in ANY branch of the military does know more from direct "hands on" experience than a person who hasn't been in.

Just like I know and understand about aircraft....the principals of how they work and operate and the basics of how to fly them..this does not however make me either an Aeronautical Engineer nor a Pilot.

My father was not only in the military(Air Force as was I)he was also a fighter pilot.Did this make him any more special than I when I later served?....Maybe from a sense of the dramatic...But we both took the same oath,and although served in different capacities had the same overall responsibilities(That being to protect the Constitution).I could niether go jump in his old fighter and take off into combat than he could go rip the turbine engine out of a generator I was responsible for and swap it for a new one......yet we both could have died in service to our country performing said duties.The same can be said between any of the services branches regardless of rank or job.

I am sorry that you misinterpet my posts as either arrogant or angry or mad or "better" than you...that is NOT my intention.I am simply trying to get a point across.

InfernoRed