Prune the Shrub in 2004 #7

[4ABRUZN]

Speaking of exporting American jobs...

BUSH ENDORSES U.S. JOBS MOVING OVERSEAS

On Labor Day, President Bush said, "I want people to understand that when somebody wants to work and can't find a job, it says we've got a problem in America that we're going to deal with. We want everybody in this country working." But yesterday, President Bush directly contradicted himself, releasing a report which "supports the shift of U.S. jobs overseas." When asked about the report and how it contradicts the president's supposed concern about job losses, the president's top economic adviser said, "Outsourcing is just a new way of doing international trade."

With more than two million jobs lost since President Bush took office, newspaper headlines across the country told readers of the White House's new support for the practice of wealthy corporations eliminating U.S. jobs and shipping them to lower-wage countries. The Seattle Times headline read, "Bush report: Sending jobs overseas helps U.S." The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette said, "Bush Economic Report Praises 'Outsourcing' Jobs" and the Arizona Republic said, "Bush Report Lauds 'Outsourcing' Jobs."

And while this may be troubling to the millions in the United States who are out of work and suffering from stagnating wages, it was celebrated in India, where thousands of good paying, white-collar U.S. jobs have moved. The headlines in India read, "Bush Aides: Outsourcing win-win for India." The story said the Administration believes exporting jobs to India and other lower-wage countries "is a win-win for both exporter and importer" - failing to explain how this is a win for American workers who the president just months ago purported to care about.

Visit Misleader.org for more about Bush Administration distortion. --> < http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1985100&l=17561 >

[JOEM]

"Misleader" is an excellent name for that source of news.

Here's the comments from a more relaible source:

As Mankiw released the annual Economic Report of the President, he said Monday that the "offshoring" of U.S. service jobs is only "the latest manifestation of the gains from trade that economists have talked about" for centuries.

"Outsourcing is just a new way of doing international trade," Mankiw told reporters. "More things are tradable than were tradable in the past and that's a good thing."

The report itself, under Bush's signature, offered similarly encouraging words, asserting that "when a good or service is produced more cheaply abroad, it makes more sense to import it than make or provide it domestically." It also said growing competition with China has not been an important factor in U.S. manufacturing job losses.

This is a report from economists on the fact of the outsourcing of some US service jobs overseas. How do you stop it? Pass laws against it? Just try it and see what you get.

Last month alone, the US economy created 112,000 jobs. A strong economy will create replacement jobs. That's Bush's and the administration's--and Congress's--task to achieve, if they can. The voters will make the final call. But protectionism will result in retaliation that will cost more jobs ultimately.

[4ABRUZN]

So of the 3.8 million jobs that Bush says will be created this year - that's about 316,000 jobs a month, by the way - is he talking about here in the States, or in India and China?

[PTRobert]

Originally Posted by 4ABRUZN

Speaking of exporting American jobs...

BUSH ENDORSES U.S. JOBS MOVING OVERSEAS

On Labor Day, President Bush said, "I want people to understand that when somebody wants to work and can't find a job, it says we've got a problem in America that we're going to deal with. We want everybody in this country working." But yesterday, President Bush directly contradicted himself, releasing a report which "supports the shift of U.S. jobs overseas." When asked about the report and how it contradicts the president's supposed concern about job losses, the president's top economic adviser said, "Outsourcing is just a new way of doing international trade."

With more than two million jobs lost since President Bush took office, newspaper headlines across the country told readers of the White House's new support for the practice of wealthy corporations eliminating U.S. jobs and shipping them to lower-wage countries. The Seattle Times headline read, "Bush report: Sending jobs overseas helps U.S." The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette said, "Bush Economic Report Praises 'Outsourcing' Jobs" and the Arizona Republic said, "Bush Report Lauds 'Outsourcing' Jobs."

And while this may be troubling to the millions in the United States who are out of work and suffering from stagnating wages, it was celebrated in India, where thousands of good paying, white-collar U.S. jobs have moved. The headlines in India read, "Bush Aides: Outsourcing win-win for India." The story said the Administration believes exporting jobs to India and other lower-wage countries "is a win-win for both exporter and importer" - failing to explain how this is a win for American workers who the president just months ago purported to care about.

Visit Misleader.org for more about Bush Administration distortion. --> < http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1985100&l=17561 >

Was this a direct quote from misleader.org? I would say they're living up to their name... the story mentions moving white collar jobs to India. How many of the unemployed in America are white collar executives "suffering from stagnating wages"?

It would seem that your source has mixed references to build a case that does not stand.

[4ABRUZN]

Originally Posted by PTRobert

Was this a direct quote from misleader.org? I would say they're living up to their name... the story mentions moving white collar jobs to India. How many of the unemployed in America are white collar executives "suffering from stagnating wages"?

It would seem that your source has mixed references to build a case that does not stand.

If your rebuttal is based solely on the use of the words "white collar", it's your case that does not stand, apparently. The original article didn't mention "executives" - just traditional white collar workers.

From http://www.investorwords.com/5305/white_collar.html

white-collar:
Refers to employees who perform knowledge work, such as those in professional, managerial or administrative positions.

From http://www.thefreedictionary.com/white-collar

white-collar:
Adj. 1. white-collar - of or designating salaried professional or clerical work or workers; "the coal miner's son aspired to a white-collar occupation as a bookkeeper"

Also: Read DEF's post form another topic.

Originally Posted by DEF

Guess which jobs are going abroad

These days it's not just a desire to cut costs that's pushing employers to hire overseas.
January 5, 2004: 11:13 AM EST
By Leslie Haggin Geary, CNN/Money staff writer



New York (CNN/Money) - If a tax preparer gets you an unexpected refund this year, you may have an accountant in India to thank.

That's because accounting firms are joining the outsourcing trend established years ago by cost-conscious American manufacturers.

In fact, companies in a number of unexpected industries are now sending work overseas. From scientific lab analysis to medical billing, the service-sector workforce has gone global.

CPA firms are just one example. In the 2002 tax year, accounting firms sent some 25,000 tax returns to be completed by accountants in India. This year, that number is expected to quadruple.

The reason lies in the numbers; accountants in the United States typically earn $4,000 a month. In places like India it's closer to $400, says David Wyle, CEO and founder of SurePrep, a tax-outsourcing firm based in southern California that's employed more than 200 accountants in Bombay and Ahmedabad, India.

"We've estimated firms will save between $40,000 to $50,000 for every 100 returns that are outsourced," adds Wyle, whose firm expects to do 35,000 returns in the coming year. That's up from 7,000 last year.

Xiptax, of Braintree, Mass., is another tax firm that's moved much work overseas for "a whole number of reasons," besides money, says CEO Mark Albrecht.

"Most CPAs do between 45 to 50 percent of their work in two months out of the year. It makes for an extremely stressful time," says Albrecht, who adds that accounting firms must then "strain" to find qualified staffers to help fill in during the crunch.

By hiring full-time staff in India, CPA firms like SurePrep and Xiptax don't have to worry about finding staff here.

Instead, they simply send tax information to a permanent team of qualified accountants in India. American accountants then review the returns before signing off on them.

"The real important part of returns isn't taking a number off a W-2 form and putting it in Box No. 1," notes Albrecht. "The real value is what's retained within the CPA firm -- the tax planning and the review."

Fighting cancer from afar
Cancer patients who seek treatment may soon find that when their tests are "sent to the lab" their medical work is scrutinized by pathologists who aren't just down the hall, but who are in a different country.


Since the mid-1980s, pathologists have been using robotic microscopes from offsite locations to peer at biopsy samples. But now, pathologists are using the newest generation of technology to enhance "telemedicine" opportunities.

Specifically, pathologists are accessing computer servers to look at digital images of lab slides, says Ronald Weinstein, director of the Arizona telemedicine project at University of Arizona College of Medicine.

The benefit isn't cost-cutting or accelerating how fast jobs are done, says Weinstein, but the power it has to bring the best and brightest medical minds together.

"Telemedicine will enable international group practices to form," he says. "You'll have a conference where three world experts can look at the slide at the same time."

To test potential uses for offshoring medicine, Weinstein's group at University of Arizona has teamed with the University of Panama School of Medicine in Panama City to work together on cancer cases.

"We're looking to have pathologists in different time zones to speed up the rate at which patients pass through clinics," he says. "Currently we're limited by time zones, not just by access to people but to a full range of expertise."

Data entry in New Delhi...

Pathology isn't the only area in medicine that's looking abroad. Increasingly, medical billing is being done by clerical staff in India, too.

That's the case at Alpha Thought International, a Chicago-based medical billing firm that has workers both in the U.S. and opened a billing office two years ago in New Delhi where staff do data entry work needed to process insurance and other medical billing claims.

"The reason that came about is because it's difficult to find workers in different parts of the country who want to do data entry," says Alpha Thought COO Dave Jakielo. When staffers in the United States quit, the company replaces them with India-based workers.

Alpha Thought cuts costs by 25 percent, because Indian workers are paid less than the average $10 an hour an American makes. The company also taps into a better-educated workforce.

"To work in an office over there you must have a college degree," says Jakielo. "The office workers we hire here are usually high school graduates."

Even so, even offshoring has its limits.

Jakielo envisions a day when medical billing will be totally automated. When that happens, even workers in New Delhi will have to find another gig.

[JOEM]

Originally Posted by 4ABRUZN

So of the 3.8 million jobs that Bush says will be created this year - that's about 316,000 jobs a month, by the way - is he talking about here in the States, or in India and China?

There may well be substantial job creation in all those places. Funny thing about economic growth...folks who get employed buy products and services that other employed folks make.

The problem with some folks is that they don't understand that things change in the job market--that's why so many folks rushed over to IT from what they were doing before and most of them have done very well in it...but some of them now will need to either sharpen their skills or go into another field. I had an uncle who worked at the Zenith manufacturing plant...but had to find other work when TV manufacturing went to Asia...and this happened during the Carter administration.

[4ABRUZN]

Originally Posted by JOEM

There may well be substantial job creation in all those places. Funny thing about economic growth...folks who get employed buy products and services that other employed folks make.

The problem with some folks is that they don't understand that things change in the job market--that's why so many folks rushed over to IT from what they were doing before and most of them have done very well in it...but some of them now will need to either sharpen their skills or go into another field. I had an uncle who worked at the Zenith manufacturing plant...but had to find other work when TV manufacturing went to Asia...and this happened during the Carter administration.

Never in our history have some many millions of jobs been sent overseas so rapidly. Even the economists admit their traditional forecasting models are broken until we see the long term result. All job creation estimates are SWAGs right now.

Plus, the chilling effect this is having on workers living under the threat of having their jobs exported may be driving up "productivity" but it is lowering the wage/salary base and driving down the standard of living for millions of Americans.

The economy is more than just the corporations - it includes people, too.

[JOEM]

Originally Posted by 4ABRUZN

Never in our history have some many millions of jobs been sent overseas so rapidly. Even the economists admit their traditional forecasting models are broken until we see the long term result. All job creation estimates are SWAGs right now.

Plus, the chilling effect this is having on workers living under the threat of having their jobs exported may be driving up "productivity" but it is lowering the wage/salary base and driving down the standard of living for millions of Americans.

The economy is more than just the corporations - it includes people, too.

Wrong. The loss of jobs aren't all, or even nearly all, due to "outsourcing to overseas." Some are directly related to the recession, which in turn had a number of causes, including the e-commerce fiasco, which caused lots of tech folks to get their pink slip.

Job creation estimates arte always "guesstimates"--nothing new. Increased productivity also includes folks working smarter and using new techniques, like e-conferencing and the like. Putting a negative spin on it solely may promote your views but it's not accurate.

[Dad Man]

The President of the United States is not in charge of a single company that is outsourcing overseas. Even if the Government was to use Indian clerks to check my tax returns, I wouldn't have a problem with that since it saves money that I would have to inderectly pay some 'tenured' government employee who reaps benefits far beyond the norms of the rest of the world. Cutting costs is smart business since they don't keep score with the headcount but rather the return on investment. ($) It may sound cruel but it's business, get over it fellas.

Life's a cruise...

D/\/\

[taikuchin]

Originally Posted by Dad Man

($) It may sound cruel but it's business,

Or simple greed.