Frustrated with Flamed Billet Interior Mirror!

[jlsl1081]

Well I contacted Trenz on Wednesday and gave them my email and phone #, but they haven't got in touch with me.

I also sent an email to Moss Motors on Thursday to both their techniacl and return departments. I also gave them my email address and phone #, but as of now I haven't heard back from them either.

So tonight I decided to put the Blue loc-tite on all the screw points. I'll let it dry for a day and then try it. I really think this might help solve the problem, as long as the weight of the mirror itself dosen't pull it down. But the problem may have been more that it was coming loose at the screw points as a result of the vibrations while driving. I couldn't tell for sure, so I'll see what happens when I put it back on.

I'm not ready to give up on this mirror just yet. I like the styling of it too much.

Rolo, I agree. The Billet Specialties mirror looks more like an oval mirror with flames attached to the top, whereas the Trenz mirror is more radical looking. However its hard to beat the customer service I was getting from Billet Spec., since they were trying to help me fix my Trenz mirror (and it's not even their product.) Plus they said they would stand behind their mirrors 100% if I had the same problem with theirs.

[jlsl1081]

Update......................

I received a response from Michael Grant, Product Mgr, For Moss Motors, Friday night, and all I can say is WOW! Talk about customer service!

He said the returns for this mirror are 50% over the average, & product complaints account for 60% of the returns. They took apart one of the mirrors to see what the problem is. It appears the washers in the stem aren't strong enough to hold the pivots in place, & that blue loctite should be used on the screw points (which Trenz doesn't tell you.) They sent a complete data sheet breakdown with diagram drawings to Trenz. They have also put a stop on selling these mirrors until they hear back from Trenz.

I can't believe this type of great customer service from a company. Obviously there is a problem in the design of the mirrors. I'm glad I'm not the only one that had, or has, a problem. I didn't mean to cause a big ruckus, but I'm glad I spoke up. $140 is too much money to spend for a product that doesn't work right.

I'll keep everyone posted with what I find out from Moss or Trenz.

Below is a copy of what Moss sent to Trenz. I tried to attach the file to this post but unfortunately I couldn't get it to work. So you can still read what Moss wrote, but you can't see the diagrams they drew for Trenz to see the problems.

001-625 MIRROR, FLAMED STYLE B PT CRUISER 00-04 (VVR PART NO)
SOURCE / FROM
7-250940
John Linderman
1151 Galway Court
Hummelstown, PA 17036
Ph# 717-787-2167 (day, E.S.T.)
717-566-5544 (night, E.S.T.)

-----Original Message-----
From: John & Sherry Linderman [mailto:jslinderman@worldnet.att.net]
Posted At: Thursday, January 08, 2004 7:13 PM
Posted To: Tech Support
Conversation: Flamed Billet Mirror Problem
QUESTION /PROBLEM
In early December I purchased Item #001-625, Flamed Billet Mirror, $129. I purchased it for my wife to give to me on Christmas, which she did. I installed the mirror this past weekend, and it has been nothing but a real headache. I have attached a copy of my email I sent to Trenz Company for their advice. This explains the problems I’m having. In summary, the mirror doesn’t stay in place when I go over the smallest bump. And then if you try to adjust it, it comes loose at either of the two screw points of the mounting post.

I love the style of this mirror and I do not want to return it, unless the problem can’t be fixed. As of now I haven’t received a response from Trenz, so I thought I would email you and see if you have a solution. I posted my problem on one of the national PT message boards and some owners are suggesting I use Blue loc-tite on the mounting screws. I think this would work in that it would prevent the mirror from loosening when I try to adjust it (and still let it swivel on the pivots of the mounting bar.) However if the weight of the mirror face itself is pulling the mirror down (and I think it might be), then the loc-tite won’t fix that problem. I certainly don’t want to loc-tite the swivel pivots on the mounting bar, because then I wouldn’t ever be able to adjust the mirror.

I am willing to try the loc-tite to see if this will make it work, but I didn’t want to without your ok first. Because what if I try it and it still doesn’t fix the problem of the mirror “falling down” when I go over a bump? Will I be able to return the mirror for a refund? Like I stated before, my goal is to get it to work properly and not return it. However the product clearly doesn’t work properly. Another PT owner in our local Cruiser club had the same problem with his (he didn’t purchase it from your company.) He decided to remove it and return it for a refund because it did the same thing mine is now doing. I even contacted Trenz before I purchased this mirror and asked them about this problem. They suggested that my friend might have over tightened the mirror and stripped it. I know he didn’t, and I definitely know I didn’t. So I figured his experience was a fluke and that this wouldn’t happen with mine. But I was wrong.

QUESTION /PROBLEM as presented directly to the Manufacturer
Hi Tracee,
I purchased the billet flamed mirror, #3300-cp2 (11” x 4 ¼”) from Moss Motors as a Xmas present. I installed it this past weekend and I am very unhappy with it. First of all let me say that I love the style of the mirror, but I’m having the same problem as another member in our local PT Cruiser club had (see the rest of this email message below.)

Every time I go over a bump in the road, I have to readjust the mirror because it “falls down”. And then when I try to readjust it, the mirror comes loose either where it connects to the mounting post or where the mounting post screws into the mounting bracket that attaches to the windshield. It is a major pain in the a**. My main focus when I’m driving is trying to keep the mirror straight and tightened. This is not a very safe situation. I know I didn’t over tighten or strip it when installing it.

The problem appears to be in the design of this mirror. Either/and:
• The main flame mirror part is too heavy for the post and it pulls it down.
• The mirror screws into the mounting post and then the mounting post screws into the mounting bracket on the windshield. So when you try to turn the mirror to adjust it, it unscrews itself at either of these two points. (The OEM mirror for my Cruiser has no screw points, therefore, it never came loose. It is all one piece.)

I do not want to return this mirror. I love the styling of it. I want to find a way to make it work. .
The other member in our club got so frustrated with his; he recently removed it and returned it for a refund. I spent about $140 with shipping so I expect it to work right or I will expect to get my money back. (However I don’t really want my money back; instead I want to get it to work right.)
The mounting post that comes with the mirror has a short and a long screw attached to each side. I had been running the short screw side into the windshield mounting bracket, and the long screw side into the mirror. I decided to try to reverse this, but it was worse. The mirror really wanted to come loose then. Which way do you recommend it be mounted?
Can you or one of your technicians get back to me by email or phone with some suggestions for what I can do?
RESPONSE FROM VENDOR
-----Original Message-----
From: Tracee Alexander [mailto:tracee@trenz.com] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 12:25 PM To: John & Sherry Linderman
Subject: RE: Mirror question
Good Morning,
It sounds like your friend may have over tightened and stripped it. If that should happen you can purchase a replacement base. Please let me know I can answer any more questions.
Thank you for your interest in Trenz.
TRENZ Customer Service Representative Tracee Alexander 3301 Unicorn Ave. Bakersfield, CA 93308
(661)393-0909 Ext. 104 -- tracee@trenz.com

DATA / INFORMATION
Returns are 50% over the average, and product complaints account for 60% of the returns, which is very unusual. Looking at the detail, the returns all refer to problems with the stem, specifically “won’t stay adjusted”, or “won’t stay positioned”
Shawn has examined a mirror and he reports “Doesn't seem to hold the greatest to me. If you don't touch it it might hold up but shaking like going over a bump it does give up after a few knocks.” This confirms the Linderman complaint and the data we see in the returns.
CONCLUSION
In examining the mirror it is clear that the two swivel or ball-and-socket joints that have threaded ends (2.1), and these threaded ends
a) attach the mirror head to the stem, and
b) attach the stem to the mounting bracket that secures to the windshield glass
and they are easy to loosen as you attempt to adjust the mirror.
It is suggested that the threads be secured with blue Loctite

Between each of the two ball-ends (2.2) there are a stack of washers (2.3) and a very stout spring (2.4).
In the one we disassembled, there were 3 washers on one side and 2 on the other. This is analogous to the arrangement inside a tie rod end. The problem seems to be that the washers do not have enough surface contacting the ball (2.2), and therefore, even though the spring is very stout, there is not enough pressure exerted to hold the ball in place when the car hits a bump. Adding washers or switching to a longer spring may help, but the re-assembly is already a real chore. We suggest that a cupped washer (see Fig 3 & 4) made to fit the ball should solve the problem, so long as it did not bottom out in the housing.
RESPONSE TO CUSTOMER
We completely agree with you that a mirror that will not stay adjusted is simply not going to work.
ACTION TAKEN
Moss US: Copy of this document sent to the supplier.
Item is I3 (blocking all sales) pending a solution to this problem
ACTION TO BE TAKEN
Moss US: wait for response from the vendor.

[Cal Cruzer]

Man, I am very impressed with Moss. I have never had to return anything to them but I have purchased from them with no problems. Good to know where to send my money when I want a company that I can depend on to back the products they sell.